|
|
Post by keeperofdreams on Dec 29, 2006 17:23:32 GMT -5
One thing I love about Ruin Mist are that its many worlds really. There are three known worlds (realms) and there same to be realms in between that connect them all. Underearth is below the kingdoms but not really underground. Overearth is above the kingdoms but not really in the sky.
|
|
|
|
Post by dragonlord on Dec 31, 2006 15:08:26 GMT -5
Many writers are masters at borrowing themes and ideas from others to further their own works. Robert Jordan excels at this, as he’s borrowed ideas from about every other fantasy ever written as his series has gone along. If there's a good idea that any fantasy writer has ever written, Jordan has plumbed it. Something I've seen is that some contemporary fantasy writers seem to have been influenced by Robert Stanek's works (whether they'd admit so is something else entirely). As I read Gene Wolfe's The Wizard Knight books I couldn't help but see the things borrowed. Like Ruin Mist, Mythgarthr has realms below and realms above. The realms below are described as not being underground but accessible by gateways. The realms above a described as being aboveground and accessible by climbing into the sky—think of underearth and overearth. His underworld realms have no sun, moon or stars—think underearth. His overworld realms are into the clouds and stars—think of overearth. There's even a place much like the City of the Sky. Wolfe even goes so far as to banter about whether the many worlds are actual worlds or realms. He opens the books with 1 or 2-line descriptions of places and people, not unlike Stanek’s own descriptions of places and people in Ruin Mist (which he placed at the ends of his original edition books). The main character, Sir Able, not unlike Vilmos, is haunted by dreams, dreams that shape his life. And, not unlike Vilmos, he descends and ascends into various parts of the world. Sir Able's "adopted father" is also named "Vil". Vil is Vilmos's "adopted father's" nickname. A coincidence? A tribute to Ruin Mist?
|
|
|
|
Post by dragonlord on Mar 3, 2007 13:54:33 GMT -5
keeperofdreams, you still around?
|
|
|
|
Post by dungeonmaster on Mar 4, 2007 23:05:35 GMT -5
The tight details are what makes it so interesting. The gates between the worlds are very much interesting in the way they work and in what's been told about them so far. RS has a great imagination. Very interesting about Wolfe's Knight books. I'm going to give them a read.
|
|
|
|
Post by jediknight on Mar 8, 2007 19:11:08 GMT -5
Hey dragonlord check out Patrick Carmen's Atherton being heavily hyped and coming out in April. Carmen doesn't even bother to disguise his rip on Ruin Mist's three planes and their exactly identical features (though he does simplify the idea in a big way for kiddie readers).
|
|
|
|
Post by epic on Mar 8, 2007 19:50:53 GMT -5
If you mean Patrick Carman, obviously the guy's borrowed from RS's Ruin Mist before. Carman's the one whose "Land of Elyon" books basically are the story of Adrina lifted from Ruin Mist. Alexa Daly = Adrina Alder down to the way she looks, braids her hair, and yearns for adventure beyond the city. More similarities? Alexa is the exact same age as Adrina when the story starts. Alexa is being raised by her "noble" father. Adrina is being raised by her "noble" father. Alexa's father is the mayor, Adrina's father is the king. Adrina's mother died when she was a girl. The walled city of Eloyn = the walled city of Imtal. Need I go on? The guy definitely needs to give RS "inspired by" credit at the least. Plus at least Ruin Mist has more complexity and originality.
|
|
|
|
Post by dragonlord on Mar 8, 2007 20:46:10 GMT -5
I would not doubt Patrick Carmen has read Robert Stanek's Ruin Mist books. Carmen originally self-published Dark Hills Divide. Stanek and Carmen are both from Washington state. I think I read somewhere Carmen moved to upstate New York recently but before that it says he lived in southern Washington state. RS lives in southern Washington state. I would imagine as a writer it'd be hard not to be influenced by current reading.
I haven't seen anything about Atherton but did take a look just now. Um, scrawny dark-haired boy climbing cliff face from the cover, look familiar to anyone? Hint take a look at themagiclands.com and the stadnard magic lands covers with scrawny dark-haired boy climbing cliff face on the cover.
|
|
|
|
Post by edog on Mar 8, 2007 22:17:29 GMT -5
OK clearly Carman "borrowed" but is this necessarily wrong? Dragonlord you wrote above that many authors borrow ideas. Wolfe also borrowed Stanek's ideas. You gave Jordan as an example of an author who borrows ideas with what could be considered as appalling frequency. Is this necessarily wrong? I'm sure when Carman self-published his book he meant it as a tribute. Heck he even ends Dark Hills with a Stanekesque cliffhanger. Duh!
|
|
|
|
Post by dragonlady on Mar 8, 2007 22:33:30 GMT -5
Carman stole the plot of Adrina to its core, lifted straight out of the three main Ruin Mist plotlines. Lest it escape everyone's notice Carman's watered down and stolen Ruin Mist is a New York Times bestseller. It just proves simple watered down stories are what mainstream readers want. Stanek's more involved, more complex, more beautifully written stories are however less accessible because of their complexity, level of involvement required and sometimes complex writing.
|
|
|
|
Post by edog on Mar 8, 2007 22:41:33 GMT -5
OK not meaning to start something. I'm not a Carman fan or regular reader. I have younger siblings who've his books so it's why I read them. Not something I would buy to read normally. I did find it interesting he self-published it and lived like right near where RS lives. If a friend of RS he may have had permission to take the ideas from the stories and use them as his own.
|
|
|
|
Post by dragonlady on Mar 8, 2007 22:49:34 GMT -5
Do you know for a fact Carman and Stanek are friends? Friends or not I doubt any writer would want anyone to... okay I'll say... borrow... their ideas so fully.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shire Hobbit on Mar 8, 2007 22:51:55 GMT -5
Many writers are masters at borrowing themes and ideas from others to further their own works. Robert Jordan excels at this, as he’s borrowed ideas from about every other fantasy ever written as his series has gone along. If there's a good idea that any fantasy writer has ever written, Jordan has plumbed it. Something I've seen is that some contemporary fantasy writers seem to have been influenced by Robert Stanek's works (whether they'd admit so is something else entirely). As I read Gene Wolfe's The Wizard Knight books I couldn't help but see the things borrowed. Like Ruin Mist, Mythgarthr has realms below and realms above. The realms below are described as not being underground but accessible by gateways. The realms above a described as being aboveground and accessible by climbing into the sky—think of underearth and overearth. His underworld realms have no sun, moon or stars—think underearth. His overworld realms are into the clouds and stars—think of overearth. There's even a place much like the City of the Sky. Wolfe even goes so far as to banter about whether the many worlds are actual worlds or realms. He opens the books with 1 or 2-line descriptions of places and people, not unlike Stanek’s own descriptions of places and people in Ruin Mist (which he placed at the ends of his original edition books). The main character, Sir Able, not unlike Vilmos, is haunted by dreams, dreams that shape his life. And, not unlike Vilmos, he descends and ascends into various parts of the world. Sir Able's "adopted father" is also named "Vil". Vil is Vilmos's "adopted father's" nickname. A coincidence? A tribute to Ruin Mist? Can we get the discussion back on track to the original point being made by dragonlord? |
|
